16 comments

  • Morizero44 minutes ago
    Picture of the remains of the tunic, since I didn't see one in the article:

    https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AA1t...

    > The revered tunic is is in fragmentary state and many small pieces less than 6cm (2.3 inches). It's pictured here in a shot from its discovery at Vergina in 1977

    Source: https://www.msn.com/en-ae/news/other/alexander-the-great-s-l...

    • readyplayernull2 minutes ago
      The box alone is a very interesting object. I guess it's made of gold? And the modular hinge. Hope they do a 3D scan.
  • mattlondon9 hours ago
    Is anyone qualified to weigh in on the academic robustness of this?

    I only scanned a few bits but I was surprised to see statements like "the male skeleton had a knee injury, thus conclusively proving it was Philip" and "the female skeleton was 18 therefore proving it was Cleopatra since sources say she was young". (Paraphrasing) Etc etc. Is that all it takes to "prove" something? Could it not just be coincidence and it was someone else with a knee injury and some other ~18 year old? Or is that as far as we need to go in archeology to prove something? Put 2 and 2 together and come up with Cleopatra?

    There also seems to be some sort of almost personal/ad hominem type stuff later on about other researchers who apparently criticised the author's work which surprised me ("Prag, Musgrave, and Neave continue to argue that I remain silent about Cyna ... as if it is an important issue"...)

    Is this legit research?

    • sgc8 hours ago
      Apologies for the long response.

      I am only partially qualified in that I am not a professional archeologist, but I have done post-doctoral archeological studies and have read enough archeological studies to understand the larger academic context.

      It is not possible to present all the data informing a judgment in such a short work. Even in a book, it would not be possible. Thus it is common in archeology for papers to be written as part of an ongoing conversation / debate with the community - which would be defined as the small handful of other archeologists doing serious research on the same specific subject matter.

      Part of that context here is that these tombs are well-established to be the royal tombs of Alexander's family, spanning a few generations including his father and his son. This is one of the most heavily studied sites in Greece for obvious reasons, and that is not something anybody is trying to prove.

      In that context, his arguments are trying to identify any body as one among millions, but as one among a small handful of under ten possibilities.

      At the same time, the fact that he is not a native English speaker and general archeological style come into play. For example:

      "the painter must have watched a Persian gazelle in Persia, since he painted it so naturalistically (contra Brecoulaki Citation2006). So the painter of Tomb II has to be Philoxenus of Eretria" sounds like a massive leap, and it is. He continues:

      "... Tomb I (Tomb of Persephone) must have been painted hastily by Nicomachus of Thebes (Andronikos Citation1984; Borza Citation1987; Brecoulaki et al. Citation2023, 100), who was a very fast painter (Saatsoglou-Paliadeli Citation2011, 286) and was famous for painting the Rape of Persephone (Pliny, N. H. 35.108–109), perhaps that of Tomb I."

      Another huge leap, both 'presented as conclusions'. However he then continues to indicate these are just hypotheses: "These hypotheses are consistent with the dates of the tombs..."

      So his English language use of presenting things factually does not indicate certainty in the way the words would be used in everyday speech. He seems to perhaps misunderstand the force of the terms, but also appears to be working within the context of the conversation with other archeologists I mentioned to start: They all know every affirmation is as "probably", rarely anything more. So it is relatively common shorthand of the craft in that sense.

      I believe you are overthinking his responses to other authors, although I understand the culture shock. It is an ongoing conversation and archeologists tend to be blunt in their assessments. Add Greek bluntness on top of this, and it does not seem to matter to the material.

      As to your last question, is this legitimate research? The answer overall appears to be yes, although I could see several points (such as the identification of artists I quoted above, and various items I noticed), which I would never have put into ink the way he did. Still, most of his arguments are compelling. It is a shame that the aggressiveness of a few affirmations detract from the overall value of his work. Archeology is not code nor is it physics. It does not pursue universal truths that are more easy to verify through repeated experiments, but unique historical ones which necessarily attempt to interweave physical details and ancient historical records. Each field has its own level of certainty, and the fact that we cannot establish these details with the same certainty as we can establish the chemical formula for water does not make them useless, or pure inventions. Far from it.

      • jkhdigital6 hours ago
        I really don’t know why I stumbled into the comments section on this particular article, but while I’m here I have to commend you on writing perhaps the most thoughtful and eloquent comment I have ever read on HN.
        • Taek5 hours ago
          Agreed, this is a "best of HN" class of comment.
          • dang2 hours ago
            Added to https://news.ycombinator.com/highlights!

            All: when you notice an exceptionally good comment, please let us know at hn@ycombinator.com so we can add it.

            • macintux1 hour ago
              There are some curious inclusions on that page, but the context link reveals that some highlights really aren't the comment, rather the discussion that it triggered.

              A "35 child comments" note or similar alongside the highlighted comments might encourage more browsing.

            • readyplayernull1 hour ago
              Hey dang, would it be possible to add a "highlight" option hidden inside the timestamp like "vouch"?
      • lisper4 hours ago
        > Apologies for the long response.

        No need to apologize for that. But I think you have a sign inversion error here:

        > In that context, his arguments are trying to identify any body as one among millions

        I presume you meant "his arguments are NOT trying to identify..."?

      • thaumasiotes6 hours ago
        > So his English language use of presenting things factually does not indicate certainty in the way the words would be used in everyday speech. He seems to perhaps misunderstand the force of the terms

        He might or might not. It's also possible that academic practice in his native language is to use terms of equivalent force.

      • openrisk7 hours ago
        > Archeology is not code nor is it physics.

        Indeed, but after scanning this article that pulls in all those pieces of indirect evidence I wondered whether some type of structured knowledge database (that encodes the innumerable pieces of historical information that are known, tags them with confidence levels etc.) would not be useful to advance research in such domains.

        Something like a large collection of RDF triplets against which you could run a query like "Given this new data point how (more)likely that Alexander the Great's tunic is identified in a royal tomb at Vergina?"

        • sgc6 hours ago
          To me it sounds like it could (and likely would) backfire, by replacing judgment with numbers. Who is giving the confidence score? What confidence score does each confidence score receive? Why are those scores more valid than the expert in that very narrow domain? If that expert is the one giving the scores, are they not just gatekeeping? Et cetera. I don't want to see researchers rewriting their papers because their cumulative source score is 68.17, and it should be 72.5 or higher.
          • openrisk3 hours ago
            > replacing judgment with numbers

            I would phrase it otherwise: supporting judgement with numbers. Its not about altering conclusions, but making more transparent the factual basis and associated reasoning from which they are derived.

            The analogy would be trying some exotic food and having a list of ingredients. Yes, good to listen to a local as to how it tastes (and whether it cures all diseases), but if the indication is: 50% sugar, thats a data point worth knowing.

          • bobthepanda4 hours ago
            also, there have been points in time where established archeology was wrong, and this seems like it would produce a bias towards what we currently think is true.

            for example, theories on how the Polynesian migration came to be are still in flux, to the point where one theory was attempted to be proven by actually sailing to the different islands using only traditional wayfinding.

          • mmooss4 hours ago
            You would attach names and dates to the numbers, as with any scientific publishing.
        • munk-a5 hours ago
          I think that, effectively, the corpus of research papers and citation links is this knowledge database. It isn't structured the way I would structure it in postgres but it seems to be working quite well for the professionals in this field.

          I know there have been some interesting finds when an archeologist has dug up a site report from the 1840s that had long laid ignored by academia but these are quite rare occurrences and the scale of people involved here (when we're talking about something hyper specific) is so small that they can probably just sort it out by talking to one another.

          For the outside public such a neatly tagged database might be helpful if someone outside of the circle wants to independently research a subject in depth but, honestly, these folks are pretty open to questions and discussions so if you're extremely interested in Gobekli Tepe or some such there's someone out there who is happy to start a conversation with you.

          • openrisk4 hours ago
            > the corpus of research papers and citation links is this knowledge database

            yes, I think so too. In the typical fashion of "pre-digital" information management systems it is extremely economical in the way it encodes things, with statements like "X is true as shown \cite{Y}" etc. But...

            > but it seems to be working quite well for the professionals in this field

            what prompted my comment is exactly the fact that didn't seem to work that well in this case :-) (nb: I am not remotely an archeology boffin, just triggered by the adversarial language of the paper).

            In more quantitative fields people talk about reproducible research, here its more a question of whether similar fields would benefit from "reproducible chains of reasoning".

          • mmooss3 hours ago
            > it seems to be working quite well for the professionals in this field

            That is the universal response to new technology: What we're doing is working fine! What they are saying is, 'everything we've accomplished has been with the old technology'.

            I promise that was heard from engineers and architects encountering CAD, from cavalry asked to give up their horses (the conservative urge is so great, many died charging machine guns!), by literary scholars presented with computerized tools, .... it's always the same. One person who installed the first email systems for many businesses told me that, over and over, people would say 'our paper memos work fine - this is just technology for technology sake'. They meant, 'everything we've accomplished, we've done it with paper memos'.

            New technology lets you do old things much faster and/or lets you do new things you couldn't do before - new things you didn't dream of doing, and as people discover uses for it, new things you won't know about for years.

            • vkou2 hours ago
              And the universal argument that people pushing tech are making boils down to 'I don't understand your field, or the particular needs of it, but I'd like to sell you a process that I invented. I'm not going to be held responsible for any bad consequences of you adopting it.'

              Unsurprisingly, people tend to resist this sort of thing.

              Sometimes the local maximum people are stuck in sucks, and they need a shakeup.

              That shakeup will not be well received when it comes from a complete stranger, who has no rapport with the community, with zero skin in the game.

              • mmooss2 hours ago
                I agree 100%. The number one issue is buy-in, by the leadership and by the users. Without it, don't waste your time.

                Buy-in requires their input and demonstrable benefits to them.

    • pm30035 hours ago
      Yes, in particular the points you cite have been widely discussed since the late 70s. The 'proofs' in question are not absolute mathematical proofs but strong hints around which cases have been made including a lot of elements. The cases are not that clearly cut,and there is not a lot of positive evidence for one thesis or the other but the phrasing here is good approximation.

      The research appears serious, but at first sight it doesn't seem to disprove any of the dominant thesis around Vergina.

      The question "who is in tomb II?" is still open. Though recent research has provided evidence against the occupant being Philip II (and being rather Philip III) there is still a good deal of evidence "for" Philip II. The case (for Philip II) made at the (very impressive) exhibition at the Vergina museum is well explained.

      The case for Cleopatra is even more tenuous but also very well explained.

    • PaulRobinson8 hours ago
      Not an academic, not an expert, but...

      The history of the elites in this period is quite well documented from multiple sources. There are some minor royals - third and fourth sons - where little is known other than some titles and lands granted, but the historical record is both comprehensive and considered accurate, particularly for those whose stories were quite shocking like the 7th wife of Philip II (Cleopatra Eurydice, the young woman whose remains are being discussed), whose death may have been suicide, or a murder made to look like suicide...

      The thread they're pulling on seems to start here, from the paper:

      > There is a unanimous agreement that Tomb III belongs to King Alexander IV, the son of the Great Alexander. This is important because it shows that the Great Tumulus belongs mainly to the Kings of the Argead dynasty, and this contributes significantly to the identification of Tombs I and II as belonging to either Philip II or Arrhidaeus

      If accept that unanimous agreement is well-founded, and it is beyond any reasonable doubt that Tomb III belongs to the son of the Great Alexander, then it seems very likely that Tombs I and II must belong to Philip II or Arrhidaeus. The paper seems to then try and work out which one belongs to who.

      Now you look through the historical record of each, and you identify that there are multiple sources indicating that Philip had a young wife (Cleopatra Eurydice), who had a young son who was murdered [1]. Then you find a tomb that along with a male, has a younger female with an infant son interred. There is no other known tomb that contains similar remains. That matches Philip II, but does not match Arrhidaeus.

      You then look at the other tomb, and realise those remains better matches Arrhidaeus.

      This is not proof in a scientific sense, it's not irrefutable, but you have to ask if the young woman and infant are not Cleopatra Eurydice and her son Caranus, who exactly are they? Which other persons match the known historical records? If they're people from outside of the known record, just how likely is it that they would be buried in this specific context of a tomb neighboring Alexander IV? Unless you then want to unpick that assumption of Alexander IV of course, which you're entitled to do, but you're now pushing back against a collective assumption with some significant weight (and I presume, evidence), behind it.

      The rest of the paper starts to pull at the logic of other papers published over the last 60 years or so to help develop the case further, but in reality without some better science that seems absent (radio carbon dating, DNA analysis to show familial relationships of remains, and so on), it might be hard to get it over the line from "seems very likely to be the best explanation given what we know today" into "almost impossible to be explained any other way".

      [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleopatra_Eurydice

      • dr_dshiv7 hours ago
        And if someone thinks this guy is wrong, then they can write an article with their opposing evidence and interpretations. And that’s how we do science.
      • PittleyDunkin4 hours ago
        I think you mean "mathematical sense" as proofs are deductive implications (apriori). Science, an abductive and empirical practice (posteriori) does not have proofs either.
    • Mistletoe7 hours ago
      Didn’t Cleopatra die at 39 years old? Your comment confuses me.
      • gavindean907 hours ago
        There were a lot of Cleopatras so this may be a different, less famous one.
      • fsckboy4 hours ago
        according to wikip, the famous one was Cleopatra VII
      • arketyp7 hours ago
        Different Cleopatra
      • sophacles6 hours ago
        Didn't John die in infancy? How can this gravestone say John died at 73?
      • verisimi6 hours ago
        This is the Cleopatra that was also known as 'Clee'. Different to 'Patty', 'Cleo' or 'Trish'. All of whom were the most beautiful woman in the world in their time :)
    • verisimi7 hours ago
      > Put 2 and 2 together and come up with Cleopatra?

      This is exactly the problem. History is built on stories, it's just story upon story. Licensed historians are able to augment the existing history. The stories need have nothing to do with the truth of whatever might (or might not) have happened.

      Whenever you try to find the sources for this or that claim, it is impossible to do so, especially with anything ancient. When I have tried to do so, I come away feeling extremely dissatisfied, and in disagreement with whatever conclusions are being presented as fact. In every single case.

      To see what I mean, here is a link to some previous research I undertook on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37927639

    • hammock8 hours ago
      Honestly seems about as robust as any other ancient history (not including pre-history). Herculaneum. Or great civilizations of the Americas. Or art “restoration.” Or “early music” performance

      There is what we know, what we think we know, what we think and don’t know, and what we don’t know. And the size of those is in exponential ascending order

      None of this is to denigrate the robust and important work of historians and adjacent fields. It’s just the reality

  • mmooss3 hours ago
    > the sacred Persian mesoleucon sarapis which belonged to Pharaoh and King Alexander the Great

    [italicizing added]

    sacred means something religious or divine. While Alexander the Great is very famous, does or did anyone who came after consider Alexander to be divine? For example, while people very much admire Abraham Lincoln, nobody would associate Lincoln with divinity.

    Another comment says that English may not be the first language of the author, so perhaps 'sacred' wasn't meant precisely. And it could be used, even by an English speaker, imprecisely (hopefully not in published research) or in an exaggerated fashion (also probably doesn't belong in published research).

    Still, I find it interesting how a little overenthusiasm and subtle shift in terminology can change perceptions of someone.

    EDIT: Better stated: Here is a modern historian calling the sarapis sacred. Why? Sacred to whom?

    • DiogenesKynikos3 hours ago
      It was not uncommon for rulers in the ancient Near East to claim to be divine, or descended from the gods.

      When Alexander conquered Egypt, he took on the role of Pharaoh, and claimed to be the son of Ra. He also began calling himself the son of Zeus.

      Abraham Lincoln isn't considered a deity, but American political culture is very different from 4th-Century BC Hellenistic political culture.

      • mmooss3 hours ago
        But here is a modern historian calling Alexander's clothes 'sacred'. Why?
        • DiogenesKynikos2 hours ago
          Because in the historical context, they were considered sacred.
          • mmooss2 hours ago
            Thanks. It's not that I'm ignorant of that. I'm trying to explore which historical contexts - and possibly modern ones - consider Alexander to be 'sacred' and why.
  • asimpletune9 hours ago
    Wow, this is huge.

    There are so many other things described in ancient texts that have yet to be discovered. Herodotus for example is filled with references to places and things that were later discovered. However there are still many examples of pretty credible places and objects that remain undiscovered.

    Also, fwiw, people for some reason think it’s ok or cool to criticize Herodotus’ history. It’s actually very good and he always says when he observed something for himself, or it’s something that is said by others and he felt it was important to document. However his assumptions and methods are always stated. I think honestly the main problem is it’s just a really long book so few ever read it.

    Thucydides is even better.

    It’s such a shame there is virtually nothing surviving from people who personally knew Alexander. His entire rise is foreshadowed all throughout Thucydides, which is amazing considering that it predates him considerably.

    • kelnos3 hours ago
      > It’s such a shame there is virtually nothing surviving from people who personally knew Alexander.

      To me it's also just incredible how short his life was, and I imagine that contributes to how scarce first-hand accounts are. He started taking part in military campaigns at 16, became king at 20, and was dead by 32. The Wikipedia article about him mentions he had a historian (or more than one); it's a shame none of those accounts survived to today.

      Sure, life expectancy back then was not what it was today, but he was still fairly young, and did a remarkable amount of conquering and expansion in a decade.

    • gavindean906 hours ago
      I like the way Bob Briar describes Herodotus as an ancient tourist/journalist.
    • guerrilla1 hour ago
      > It’s such a shame there is virtually nothing surviving from people who personally knew Alexander.

      Did you forget the guy who's texts were the foundation of our civilization? Most of Aristotle's works are lost, but there is still much to read from Alexander's tutor.

  • troymc9 hours ago
    My summary: they claim (with evidence) that they found the sacred purple sarapis (tunic) of Alexander the Great, and possibly some of his other things.
    • pluc9 hours ago
      I'll go a bit further and say that they don't claim it's Alexander's tomb, but someone that was buried with Alexander's artifacts (namely, his brother)
      • armitron8 hours ago
        This is correct. Alexander is burried in Alexandria, Egypt. This discovery means that some of his artifacts were inherited by one of his siblings, moved back to Greece and burried with them.
        • troymc8 hours ago
          AFAIK, the current location of Alexander's tomb is not known.
          • armitron8 hours ago
            The exact location is not known but there is strong consensus amongst historians that he's burried in Alexandria.
  • rwl46 hours ago
    Just in case anybody is interested in a bit more of a casual format, I had NotebookLM create a podcast from the paper.

    https://notebooklm.google.com/notebook/0bef03c4-3ed5-4b13-90...

    • anoncow5 hours ago
      That was enjoyable. I have doubts as to how close this was to the article (but I have no patience to verify).
  • ourmandave5 hours ago
    Makes me want to re-watch The Man Who Would Be King again.
  • gargalatas6 hours ago
    I would never expect such a Greek matter would become headline in here. Turns out that Alexander the Great was globally accepted.

    But let me clarify from what I have read that it's just a conjecture and not a very strong one.

    • lolinder6 hours ago
      It would never have occurred to me that a Greek would assume that Alexander the Great was just a local hero!

      In the US, anyone who remembers any ancient history will remember Alexander the Great. He's a part of every single world history curriculum, and for good reason. Whether by his own skill or luck, he reshaped most of Eurasia in his lifetime.

      • romanhn6 hours ago
        Not just the US. As a kid growing up in Russia, I was very aware of Alexander's prominence (known to us as Alexander the Macedonian).
        • markdown51 minutes ago
          I mean, it was in the curriculum in Fiji where I studied. Stupid of course, because we had to learn the histories of far away places (literally on the other side of the world) more than our own history.
      • stavros5 hours ago
        As a Greek, it's very weird to me that someone would think Alexander the Great isn't well-known worldwide. Interesting that someone is surprised.
    • HEmanZ6 hours ago
      The entire western world draws its cultural lineage through the ancient greek civilizations, most of us sub-consciously consider ancient greek history "our" history. Even relatively un-educated New Zealanders on the exact opposite side of the world know who Alexander the Great is.
    • kelnos3 hours ago
      Alexander the Great was taught in my US high-school world history class. I was very fuzzy on the details of his life (time period, exactly where he was from and what he did), but he was Kinda a Big Deal for the world, not just ancient Greece.
    • rgreekguy3 hours ago
      I would have never expected such a Greek matter to not be polluted by some beloved neighbours to the North of ours!
    • architango3 hours ago
      Hans Gruber referred to him in "Die Hard," so that's good enough for me.
    • moffkalast4 hours ago
      They wouldn't call him "the Great" if he was just some guy. He's up there with Caesar, Napoleon, Genghis, Attila and the rest.
  • 6 hours ago
    undefined
  • anshumankmr8 hours ago
    Pics ?
  • permo-w5 hours ago
    that is a truly terribly written abstract
  • 7 hours ago
    undefined
  • bhouston9 hours ago
    Time to do the Jurassic Park thing and bring him back! (Well at least a genetic clone.)
    • karaterobot8 hours ago
      I bet you could clone 1000 Alexanders, and none of them would be The Great. You'd need Aristotle as a tutor, and to inherit one of the best armies in the world from your dad, the king, and probably a million other little things would have to align in order to give you that combination of ambition and ability. If you can arrange all that, my intuition is that the genetic factors are probably of secondary importance.
      • PepperdineG3 hours ago
        You might end up with Khan Noonien Singh who will try and steal your ship then stick a bug in your ear
      • pennomi6 hours ago
        Best I can do is raise him on a steady diet of memes and Vtubers.
      • echelon7 hours ago
        Not to mention that the entire opportunity gradient is gone now.
    • derektank9 hours ago
      New Great Filter just dropped: Once a technological civilization develops cloning and ancient DNA analysis they decide to revive all the greatest warlords and conquerors in their history and, to everyone's surprise, all the Will to Power types cause a global thermonuclear conflict
      • hshshshshsh9 hours ago
        But they can't fetch the memories and psychological traumas right? The person would just look like the old person then and no personality resembling the old one.
        • fluoridation9 hours ago
          They also won't be in the same political position. There aren't that many historically important men that started out as true nobodies.
          • potato37328428 hours ago
            The top 3 scores for 20th century atrocities are held by people who started off as nobodies.

            People who rise to the occasion in times of national crisis seem to frequently be people who are on the line between somebody and nobody with people like George Washington and Caesar toward the "somebody" end and people like Napoleon and Eisenhower on the nobody end.

            • Novosell6 hours ago
              Hitler, Stalin and Mao or did you have others in mind?
          • kijin9 hours ago
            They just as well might be, if they are treated as Alexander Reincarnate by everyone around them from a very young age.

            Not all clones will survive the pressure of all the expectations upon them, but we only need one of them to accept his destiny as Kwisatz Haderach.

            • taneliv8 hours ago
              What now does this all have to do with shortening the distance? Or do you mean something else than https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kefitzat_haderech ?
              • foolswisdom8 hours ago
              • sophacles1 hour ago
                It has everything to do with shortening the distance!

                You see there was a prophecy among the Bene Gesserit that a careful human breeding program could produce a genetically perfect man who could survive taking the water of life. This would enable in him an ability similar to that the Guild Navigators employ to guide their ships, but for the course of all humanity rather than the course of a single heighliner.

          • AnimalMuppet9 hours ago
            I'm pretty sure that a clone of Alexander the Great wouldn't start out as a true nobody.
            • fluoridation9 hours ago
              Compared to the prince of Macedon? Yeah, pretty much zero political power.
              • drexlspivey8 hours ago
                He would win the election in Greece in a heartbeat
                • arp2428 hours ago
                  Not before Greece and North Macedonia declare war over who gets to claim the Alexander clone.
                  • usrusr6 hours ago
                    Well, whoever gets to have an election first, right? But then there's that thing about clones, why not both!
        • arunix9 hours ago
          In The Boys from Brazil, they try to get around that by creating circumstances similar to that experienced by the historical warlord.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boys_from_Brazil_(film)

        • alex_young9 hours ago
          Shh. You’ll upset the puritans.
        • pwillia79 hours ago
          they can't fetch the memories and psychological traumas so far
          • hshshshshsh8 hours ago
            Is there a hypothetical way to fetch that?
      • busseio8 hours ago
        This is the plot-line behind the Serpentor story arc in GI Joe, but they mix all the best-worst parts together into one bad guy.
      • sundarurfriend8 hours ago
        Fate/Great Filter
      • jgon7 hours ago
        Shades of The Book of the New Sun, and Severian reviving Typhon only to realize what sort of threat he poses.
    • relistan9 hours ago
      Not sure about Alexander, but I’m here for Lincoln.
    • thom9 hours ago
      Just his stuff, not actually his tomb (which is presumably still somewhere in Egypt, but who knows).
      • tokai9 hours ago
        In Alexandria, destroyed in the ~5th century. Its was a holy site for centuries and we have many sources on it. But we don't know what happen to his mummy during the destruction.
        • saas_sam9 hours ago
          There's a compelling theory that Alexander's body was moved to the Basilica of Saint Mark in Venice, Italy!
        • thom7 hours ago
          Or indeed its nose!
    • hshshshshsh9 hours ago
      Is there a program that can generate 3D view of a human by reading DNA?
    • Hikikomori9 hours ago
      And use Chatgpt to fill his mind, what could go wrong?
    • Eumenes9 hours ago
      The world could use another Alexander the Great about now
      • AnimalMuppet9 hours ago
        To destroy every existing country from Egypt to Pakistan, replacing them with a one-man-rule empire? And killing a large number of people to get there? And leaving behind a number of feuding generals when he dies, who create their own one-man-rule sub-empires?

        No thanks. What we have now isn't great, but I'm not sure that's an improvement.

        • Eumenes8 hours ago
          Ironically, the United State's foreign policy is pretty similar to that, if the nations weren't conquered, they're controlled via friendly proxies.
    • kasey_junk9 hours ago
      Wasn’t that the plot of “GI Joe: The Movie”?
      • squiffsquiff9 hours ago
        The did an episode of star trek next generation with this https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Kahless_(clone)
        • nayroclade9 hours ago
          That episode presents quite a plausible scenario for why notable historical figures might be cloned, in my opinion: Participants in a contemporary power struggle wanting to use their talismanic status for political ends.
  • istultus9 hours ago
    As usual, "Conjecture Presented as Fact in Headline"

    They found a fabric in a royal tomb in Greece that fits the description of Alexander's famous sarapis. What is more likely - that this is Alexander's sarapis itself or that a very rich guy had one made just like it?

    • ericmay8 hours ago
      > What is more likely - that this is Alexander's sarapis itself or that a very rich guy had one made just like it?

      I read through the original article though not very closely, and the authors wrote that the construction of the sarapis was unique in that nobody would have been allowed to construct one, and that the physical construction of the sarapis would have been profoundly expensive.

      It could be the case that another rich guy went and had one made, sure, but given the above two priors you'd have to answer:

        Who else at the time could afford to have such a sarapis constructed?
        Is there a record of anyone with a similarly designed and constructed sarapis? Historians seem to have a good idea of who was rich and/or noble in the area at the time.
        If someone at the time constructed a similarly designed sarapis in the region, who would have built it and why wouldn't have someone basically told on them for trying to copy the God King? 
      
      I don't think your point is invalid, but it would raise more questions that as far as I'm aware there seems to be little evidence for and introduce impractical logistics for the time period.
      • infecto8 hours ago
        I think people forget that in those times production was tightly controlled and most likely the construction of such a cloth without permissions would most likely be met with execution.
        • ericmay7 hours ago
          I agree - thank you for writing that more pointedly than I did in my post.
    • ipinak7 hours ago
      A very rich guy made one and put it the tomb? Your comment is the conjecture here. Which begs the question, why you even doing that?
    • bryanrasmussen8 hours ago
      Alexander looks over crowd..hmm, that guy has a sarapis just like mine! Guards, have that man disembowelled!
      • bertil8 hours ago
        That would explain the presence in a tomb…
        • timdiggerm8 hours ago
          I doubt a man wearing a counterfeit version of a garment reserved only for kings would be given a nice tomb
          • kadoban7 hours ago
            Or be allowed to be buried in the garment.
  • a12k7 hours ago
    This is awesome and very historic. I’m hoping it ends up in a glass case at Meta HQ though so many people can appreciate it rather than in a closet in Palo Alto.
    • 7 hours ago
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