18 comments

  • joshstrange5 天前
    If you also saw the line:

    > Westcombe Dairy's maturing cave is equipped with cheddar-turning robot, nicknamed Tina the Turner

    And wanted to see it in action, here is a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDLJwmdonIo

    • hinkley4 天前
      You're simply the best.
      • runep3 天前
        Cheddar than all the rest.
    • Ductapemaster5 天前
      Awesome!

      That is a vastly more complex machine and action than I was expecting. Seems like there is more to the process than just flipping it over.

      • joshstrange5 天前
        Yep, I thought the same thing. The comments/description said it brushes the outside for cheese mites/dust/etc and then flips it.
    • ahazred8ta5 天前
      This is not the first time a cheese facility has had a security breach. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NEPfNrRBnDs (IBM cheddar cheese hack ad)
    • fecal_henge4 天前
      That was wonderfull.
  • zeagle4 天前
    Fun cheese fact: the Fibroscan tool that checks for liver cirrhosis/fibrosis non invasively came out of a tool designed to assess elasticity of cheese wheels like the ones in the article!

    https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/vision/rethinking-how-we-detect...

  • tonetegeatinst5 天前
    The silent implication of a cheese black market is horrifying yet somewhat amusing.

    Imagine trying to buy stolen wheels of Parmigianino or German cheese.

    • lastofthemojito5 天前
      I like to imagine police had been following these guys for weeks after noting suspicious behavior, but were unable to crack the criminals' presumed code, "they keep talking about a big cheese heist and taking lots of cheddar - but what's the target, is it a bank or a museum or a jeweler?"

      Nope, they were just talking about stealing cheese.

    • ortusdux5 天前
      Counterfeiting is a major concern. Parmigianino Reggiano producers have been testing laser activated RFID chips for traceability.

      https://futurism.com/the-byte/cheese-tracking-chips-parmesan

      https://p-chip.com/about/

      • soco3 天前
        Given it was in 2022 and supposed to use blockchain, I assume the project is dead like pretty much any other industrial use of blockchain. And either way, who wants to eat DOC microchips?
        • ortusdux2 天前
          In theory they were implanted in the wax coating on the outside of the rind, which is also edible but not something people would want to eat. Chunks of rind are great additions to simmering tomato sauces, just don't forget to remove it before serving!
      • thaumasiotes5 天前
        > Counterfeiting is a major concern.

        To who? Suppose I buy some "Parmesan cheese" and it tastes exactly like Parmesan cheese. What's the problem supposed to be?

        In what sense is the cheese counterfeit at all?

        • bl4ckm0r35 天前
          Procedures and ingredients quality are not respected in counterfeit products (for example it's acceptable, in the us, for grated parmesan to have cellulose/wood pulp in it) and they still sell you the stuff at a high price. i don't think anyone died because of these products but if you take fake parmigiano it's a $2B market.

          https://www.foodandwine.com/news/amount-wood-pulp-grated-par...

          https://www.cnet.com/home/kitchen-and-household/parmesan-che...

          https://www.forbes.com/sites/larryolmsted/2012/11/19/the-dar...

          • Kon-Peki5 天前
            Prepackaged grated parmesan needs an anti-caking additive no matter where in the world you live. Cellulose isn't bad for you, in moderation. So the issue is not whether your prepackaged parmesan has cellulose added, it's how much was added.

            If you don't like it then you should buy solid parmesan and grate it yourself. In the US or anywhere else.

            • idiotsecant5 天前
              It's also not something unique to Parmesan, all shredded cheese has additives to prevent it turning into a cheese ball again. Kind of the nature of shredded cheese
              • k4rli5 天前
                Why would European sellers hide the additives then? Especially with stricter labelling+food standards.

                https://iperdrive.iper.it/spesa-online/it/seriate/parmigiano...

                • Kon-Peki5 天前
                  Congrats on finding one without cellulose. That is also possible in the US.

                  Powdered cellulose is an Annex II food additive in the EU - E 460(ii) - and is an allowed food additive to any grated or sliced whey cheese, quantum satis (the manufacturer can use as much of it as they need to use, because it is considered harmless) [1]

                  This is EXACTLY the same situation as the US.

                  [1] https://ec.europa.eu/food/food-feed-portal/screen/food-addit...

                  My statement a few comments above was a brain fart :) The larger the grated pieces, the less anti-caking agents you would need. It completely slipped my mind and I suspect that the cheese linked above would be larger pieces of parmesan. Still, if exposed to the high humidity present in some parts of the US (less common in Italy), the cheese in that package would eventually become a clumpy mess if not fully consumed quickly :)

                  You have to understand that lots of people seem to enjoy parmesan as essentially a powder. I have no idea why, that is certainly not my preference. However, there is demand for parmesan "powder" and the market therefore supplies it. Powdered cellulose is the only way to make that happen.

                  • superhuzza2 天前
                    "Still, if exposed to the high humidity present in some parts of the US (less common in Italy)"

                    Italy is basically a massive peninsula and some islands - it's quite humid! The humidity in Parma itself today is 65%, which is the same as Miami, Florida today and more than New Orleans. it's fall in Italy, and in Palermo it's 80% humidity, in Bergamo 84%, Bologna 83% etc.

                  • bl4ckm0r31 天前
                    I'll have to correct you here, while i am sure you can find (as i found) real parmigiano or in general good cheese in the states (by paying a lot of money for it) the law allows for additives to be added to it. In europe this is illegal, you cannot have additives in parmigiano (solid or grated), and if found normally the product is retired from the market.

                    In general the FDA in the US is much more liberal in favour of the industry, sacrificing quality and this apply to several products.

                    (For example i found out that in the US the minimum amount of chocolate that has to be present in a chocolate product is like 10% and in europe is 25% (if i am not wrong) and the amount of max sugar is also different.

                    Said this, you can eat all the cellulose you feel like eating, but I think it's wrong to 1) charge for it as if it was parmigiano and 2) sell it as an italian product.

                    ps regarding your humidity comment

                    "Alaska is one of the most humid states! In fact, Alaska reports an average RH of 77%, with the next highest state, Florida, reporting a 74% average. Despite Florida being hot and balmy, Alaska has high humidity levels because of its milder, lower temperatures."

                    https://www.currentresults.com/Weather/Italy/humidity-annual...

                  • GeoAtreides4 天前
                    no, it's not the only way, here's grated parmesan with absolutely no cellulose: https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/gol-ui/product/sainsburys-fresh...
        • wormlord5 天前
          Parmesano Reggiano has to come from the Parma region of Italy and is certified by some consortium of cheese makers I think. Same thing with San Marzano tomatoes.

          There's not a problem per-se, but the issue is that in all reality you'd probably be getting an inferior product. The exclusivity is done so that consumers can be ensured that they are getting cheese from a specific area with specific criteria.

        • mattlondon5 天前
          The same could be said about anything. Clothes, watches, cars, hell even medicine.

          If it is indistinguishable, is it different? It starts to get a bit philosophical from there on in.

          I think though fakes tend to be significantly worse quality because they want to make loads of profit. I can't see cheese fraudsters going to the same lengths of maturation and all that because why bother.

          • hinkley4 天前
            Consumer safety is the reason we have brand name products in the first place. Mutually assured destruction if the brand starts putting lead in soap.
        • rcruzeiro5 天前
          If you paid for Parmesan cheese and got something else, I’d say that’s already a problem. We are not even taking into consideration that counterfeit food products adhere to no food safety standards.
          • bee_rider5 天前
            I guess real Parmesan cheese complies with the food safety regulations of Parma, while most knock off (for example) American brands will comply with the local food safety regulations.

            I mean… I dunno, it isn’t as if I actually believe my country has sane regulations. But I’ve presumably already eaten lots of American sawdust in my powdered cheese products, how bad could it be for me? What kind of sawdust do they have in Parma?

            • stouset4 天前
              You might find this hard to believe, but they don’t actually put sawdust in any product labeled “parmigiano reggiano” in Parma.

              And it’s not just about that. “Parmesan” in the US doesn’t have to abide by… basically anything. It doesn’t need to be aged. It doesn’t need to be milk of any particular quality. It can include any ingredients. It has no definitional requirements at all, other than needing to plausibly be cheese.

            • hinkley4 天前
              So you've already forgotten the melamine incident with milk products from China.
          • thaumasiotes5 天前
            > If you paid for Parmesan cheese and got something else, I’d say that’s already a problem.

            Kind of an ironic claim in a discussion of Cheddar cheese.

        • singleshot_5 天前
          To people who want to use the mark or origin to distinguish between quality goods and garbage before they buy them instead of after they taste them. You know, the primary use of a mark of origin.

          You may have noticed that you supposed the opposite of what I supposed, for sanity’s sake.

        • jajko5 天前
          Louis Vuitton fake bag may look 1:1 from good enough distance yet for some reason people keep buying them... what's the problem supposed to be? And that's before going into topic of being European and actually appreciating heritage, place of origin, craft skills etc. that go into making one of these.
        • umanwizard5 天前
          What makes you think it will actually taste exactly the same?
        • ygjb5 天前
          For the example Parmesan cheese vs PDO (Protected Designation of Origin, under European law) Parmesan Reggiano cheese, the differences are in flavour and texture. It is absolutely possible to make Parmesan that matches PDO Parmesan Reggiano cheese outside of that region, but if you don't have the stamp (or counterfeit the stamp), you can't charge a premium price.

          The same applies to a laundry list of food ingredients and products, including wines, cheeses, teas, produce, and meat. PDO isn't the only such scheme, several countries have their own appelation programs.

          From a counterfeiting perspective there are three major concerns - misleading the consumer, economic harm to the cheesemakers in the region of origin, and potential food safety.

          In terms of misleading the consumer, mass market parmesan cheese is usually produced with pasteurized milk vs raw milk and cured for 10 months vs 24 months. It is often sold ground into a fine powder to conceal the lower quality texture, and the flavour profile is substantially different. When cooking with 10 month cured cheese vs 24 month cured cheese, there is a noticeable difference in how the cheese melts and incorporates into different foods which can result in downstream lower quality foods (in terms of presentation and flavour, nutritionally the differences are negligable).

          In terms of economic harm, parmesan cheese is substantially cheaper to produce, and has a retail price as low as $~0.50/ounce. PDO Parmesan ranges in price from $~1.50/ounce for 2 year aged, and as high as $~10/ounce (note my prices are converted from CAD to USD, and based on prices from the cheese market near me, prices may vary by market). If a counterfeiter can sell parmesan as PDO Parmesan Reggiano, they command a significant margin, even if they sell it much cheaper than the retail price).

          In terms of health risks, PDO and other Appelation designations often require audits or reviews of production process to ensure compliance and quality control. Fake PDO Parm made with unpasteurized milk and not handled properly can bring the risks of using raw milk to the consumer - properly made PDO Parm results in a cured and extremely low moisture product that should destroy most of the bacteria and molds. Even minor changes in the production process can make the resulting product unsafe or higher risk for consumption.

          • maxerickson4 天前
            It's funny to get down in the weeds of the low standards of the American product when it's often sold next to a container labeled topping and mostly comprised of powdered whey.
    • sampo5 天前
      In 2014 EU put sanctions on exporting certain goods to Russia, and Russia put counter-sanctions on e.g. importing European cheese to Russia. But Russian people still wantef higher quality cheese, so smuggling cheese across the Finnish-Russian border was quite common in the years following. But this is only 100kg:

      https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/oltermanni-salakuljettaj...

      • trhway5 天前
        more typical since 2014 the situation of the goods like Norwegian salmon disappearing from the Russian market while the goods that were never there until 2014 like Belarussian salmon (while Belarussia is still landlocked :) quickly becoming available in large volumes on Russian market. Similarly with Armenian electronics which never been there until 2022.
    • satvikpendem5 天前
      Do you know about the maggot filled cheese from Sardinia, casu martzu? It is illegal in the EU but it is still sold illegally around the area of its inception. It's illegal because sometimes the maggots could survive in your intestines to cause damage.
      • inglor_cz5 天前
        Eating food that can eat you back ... a real ouroboros.
        • satvikpendem5 天前
          Pineapple is similar in that it has enzymes that digest your tongue as you eat it.
          • saaaaaam4 天前
            This is the reason that traditionally a “gammon steak” is served grilled with pineapple. The pineapple helps tenderise the meat. Which in turn is why in the US pineapple started to be put on pizza that had ham on it.
            • satvikpendem4 天前
              You can also tenderize tough cuts of steak in a marinade as well.
          • hinkley4 天前
            I learned that the hard way. If you eat a bunch of fresh pineapple with someone you're both going to be less inclined to want to make out afterward.
          • foo425 天前
            I've always disliked how my tongue feels when eating pineapple (so I rarely do) this explains it!
          • deepfriedchokes5 天前
            I bet you are fun to talk to at parties and I mean that in a good way.
    • deepfriedchokes5 天前
      That’s crazy where do they sell these black market cheeses anyway? Asking for a friend.
      • drewcoo4 天前
        Restaurants. Grocers. Cheese shops. Businesses with tight margins that might be willing to consider something that "fell off a truck."

        You'd have to be pretty bad at reselling to resort to selling it out of the back of a car.

    • fecal_henge4 天前
      Obligatory mental image of someone opening mackintosh to reveal suspended cheeses inside.
  • makapuf5 天前
    Let's start investigating Gromit!
    • vr465 天前
      It's only 22 tons, we could probably polish that off over a weekend.
      • hinkley4 天前
        They'll need an awful lot of crackers for that.
    • bell-cot5 天前
      Wallace & Gromit: Vengeance Most Fowl is due for release this month, so they'll be available.

      Current Working Title: Wheel of Feta

      • hinkley4 天前
        My favorite cheese fact is, and shall always be, that Wallace and Gromit saved Wensleydale cheese from ceasing production by having it be Wallace's favorite cheese in A Close Shave. Nick Park just liked the sound of the name.
  • tristramb5 天前
    Another excuse for Michael Palin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz1JWzyvv8A
  • ptek5 天前
    I wonder if this is the start of a new criminal market and if there are any heavies involved or the big players involved?

    Any one know if any cheese is showing up on the dark nets?

    It's not illegal, illegal so it should get through the post easily and use refrigeration transport and less hassle if you get pulled over by the cops.

    Some countries like New Zealand are pretty strict with dairy imports so trying to get brunost from Norway...

  • JanSolo5 天前
    Some high-impact reporting there from the BBC! Also contains my favourite quote of the day: "Westcombe Dairy's maturing cave is equipped with cheddar-turning robot, nicknamed Tina the Turner"
    • ForOldHack5 天前
      This machine needs its own post:

      "cheddar-turning robot, nicknamed Tina the Turner."

      www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hnQnTRIfws

  • trhway5 天前
    How one would launder all that cheese? Even say having some big retailer involved, some customers would probably still recognize that the cheese is from that batch.
    • tomwphillips5 天前
      I imagine it will be smuggled out of the country immediately.

      No cheese buyer at a large retailer in the UK would touch it. It’s not worth the risk.

      Similarly at the artisan end of the market, it’s a small world (like the article says) - why would you risk your personal and commercial reputation buying stolen goods? You wouldn’t.

      • thimabi5 天前
        I wonder how they are going to smuggle such a gigantic quantity of cheese out of the country. It’s kind of hard to move 22 tonnes of anything without raising suspicion, and doing so in a hurry poses additional challenges.
        • jl65 天前
          I imagine they would have to do it Caerphilly.
          • 3guk4 天前
            Damnit, you got me with that one !!
        • gazook895 天前
          I’m not disagreeing with you, but 22 tonnes is about 48,000 lbs, which is about the limit (or just over) of what a regular semi trailer can haul (at least in the US). So moving it likely isn’t much issue, but the selling it likely is
      • erehweb5 天前
        But once you've got it out of the country, where then? Would French cheese buyers take it? Or do you have to go to Russia?
        • kjs32 天前
          There are many places where "this is a highly prized luxury commodity from the West" is more than enough to create a market, and legally lax enough to be minimal risk.
    • mattlondon5 天前
      Cheese keeps. No rush.

      Keep hold of it for a while then when it has blown over sell a truckle here or there to an up-market restaurant, perhaps a few at a time for a small distributor etc.

      Probably untraceable and entirely legit looking if you are just selling cheese. It's not like they are going to be trying to off load your "typical" high-value goods at silly low prices in pubs and car boot sales.

    • titusjohnson5 天前
      Unlike jewels or greenbacks, you can get value out of cheddar over time by eating a cheese heavy diet. I imagine the tough part here is storing that much cheese for long enough to provide a large impact to your monthly grocery budget.
    • Ma8ee5 天前
      Small corner shops that buys a few legal pieces of cheese through officials channels, but buy the bulk on the black market for a fraction of the price.
      • tomwphillips5 天前
        This is pretty niche cheddar. I doubt it’s being sold at a corner shop alongside warm cans of Carlsberg!
    • pixelpoet3 天前
      Screw laundering it, you just keep buying crackers and eat delicious cheese for the rest of your days.
  • 5 天前
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    • Symbiote5 天前
      Possibly Russia, where it might be desired but not possible to buy officially?
  • edanm5 天前
    Food heist!

    If anyone here is a fan of Brandon Sanderson but doesn't listen to his podcast with Dan Wells, called Intentionally Blank, you might enjoy it. And one of their things is to start off most episodes with a news story about a food heist - this apparently happens a lot.

    • foo425 天前
      Thanks for the recommendation. I've enjoyed a lot of Sanderson books (although not all of them clicked with me) and I'm always looking for a new podcast
  • reneberlin3 天前
    I thought they track them with RFID. Ratatouille has of course separated them before eating.
  • throw0101a5 天前
    See also perhaps:

    > The Great Canadian Maple Syrup Heist (French: vol de sirop d'érable du siècle, lit. 'maple syrup heist of the century') was the theft over several months in 2011 and 2012 of nearly 3,000 tonnes (3,000 long tons; 3,300 short tons) of maple syrup, valued at C$18.7 million (equivalent to C$24.1 million in 2023) from a storage facility in Quebec. The facility was operated by the Federation of Quebec Maple Syrup Producers (French: Fédération des producteurs acéricoles du Québec, FPAQ) which represents 77 percent of the global maple syrup supply.[1]

    * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Canadian_Maple_Syrup_Hei...

  • hulitu5 天前
    Is it possible that Scotland Yard does not have sniffing dogs ?
  • IndrekR5 天前
    300000£/22000kg≈13.6£/kg

    Not sure what they mean by “high value” here.

    • Symbiote5 天前
      Perhaps read beyond the first sentence.

      > Neal's Yard Dairy sells Hafod Welsh for £12.90 for a 300g piece, while Westcombe costs £7.15 for 250g and Pitchfork is priced at £11 for 250g.

    • hinkley4 天前
      If it was stolen from a wholesaler it's possible they're using the wholesale price for the charges. But the local big cheese seller is selling theirs for about 10£/kg. Cheddar is sort of a bulk cheese. We use a lot of it.
    • bee_rider5 天前
      Well, the whole block is still pretty expensive.

      To convert it to American, I think that is like $8/lb or so? So it is a little more expensive than Tillamoook (which is a decent, but definitely mass market, brand) but same order of magnitude.

      Although I guess that must be the wholesale price.

    • 5 天前
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  • naikrovek5 天前
    Oh no, me cheese
  • nutrie5 天前
    Very British :)
    • dogsgobork5 天前
      This is up there with the Canadian maple syrup theft in the "Crimes most befitting their country" list.
      • dweinus5 天前
        I shudder to think what the USA's would be, but strong chance it involves Florida Man.
    • jll295 天前
      While we're at it, I drove a small amount of Normandy Camembert through the Northern part of Alsace today, but it was strictly for personal consumption only and legally obtained from Carrefour.

      Mystery how folks could spend GBP 11 for 250 g of Cheddar !?

  • wkat42425 天前
    Reminds me of the story from the expanse lol
  • frank_bb4 天前
    [dead]